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the "broken record" strikes again... tna and hogan...
i have had the chance to read up on some news i have missed out on and came across one thing over and over... that i am an alleged "broken record" for tna... if constantly pointing out their obvious flaws is a bad thing... then i guess i am guilty... but its not my fault tna continues to suck... dont blame the messenger...
as for the hogan / tna signing... i still think it isnt going to work... and before i get the same old lame responses i always get, let me make some comparisons for you guys to chew on... its important to know that going against the big boys and trying to succeed is not a new thing... just a "broken record" of failures...
pele and the n.a.s.l... soccer in america has always been considered irrelevant... and the world thought pele, soccers biggest name, could make soccer important in america... much like how hogan wants to make tna matter in america... pele ended up doing nothing for soccer except a mild spike... then drop...
donald trump and the usfl... trump thought that he could compete with the nfl... and was a huge investor in the usfl... he thought his name and buying power could compete with the huge nfl... just like hogan/tna and the WWE... long story short, the usfl was gone in just 3 years... crushed by the nfl...
vince mcmahon and the xfl... in 2001, even vince himself tried to topple the nfl... he thought his unique twist to football would garner a large audience in the nfl's offseason... much like hogan/tna and the WWE... vince had a initial large audience but it faded very quickly and the xfl made just one season... tna has had their initial ratings spike... does it mean the same as the xfl?... we'll see...
david beckham and m.l.s... just like pele, soccer biggest name was convinced that he could make soccer relevant... it didnt work, cause after an initial spike things returned to normal... and this is a most likely scenario for hogan / tna as well...
this list goes on and on... wnba, arena football, etc... history is littered with similar stories...
as for wrestling... wcw did see a 3 year window of huge success... absolutely huge... 1997 to 2000 were awesome for wcw... the problem is that politics, ego, money and poor management did themselves in... bischoff was huge in this, i will agree, but in my opinion he was just a one trick pony... his borrowed nwo idea did work, but he had no second idea... and like i've read in many places... bischoff couldnt save wcw with new ideas... and that folks is a fact... hogan has tried to be an entrepreneur many times before... he has even shown his wrestling related work in the short lived celebrity championship wrestling... hogan and bischoff may be good friends... hell, they may even be good for tna... but they dont have a great history of success on their own...
long story short... people may think i am a broken record for tna... but you can see where i am coming from... the list of failures above sits in the back of my mind... the history of hogan and bischoff are in the back of my mind... common sense tells me that a brief initial spike is often followed by reality setting in... and unless tna and hogan really show me and the world something, history does have a way of repeating itself... and thats where i sit on this topic...
hogan signing with tna is a huge deal... tna, much like wcw in 1994, has signed the biggest name in wrestling history... no doubt... but without substance, the sizzle will fade quickly... if it succeeds, then we all win cause wrestling wars will be back... and wrestling will be a hot topic again... but i am just not convinced this will happen... if it does, then it does... but i still have reservations... wcw couldnt handle their success and folded quickly... tna is less suited for this success, and doesnt seem to have things in order to handle it either...
one thing is for sure... hulk hogan will at least make things interesting...
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10/31/2009 4:13:00 PM
Well, if you would just stop doing indefensible sh## like backing up your opinion with facts, then you wouldn't have to worry about the "broken record" comments, which ironically enough are their own broken record. WWE is a profitable company, that is a fact. TNA is unprofitable, despite what a few deluded persons would have you believe. Never once have I seen solid evidence posted on this site or anywhere else for that matter that condradicts either statement. WCW for most of its existence was unprofitable as well, with the exception of the late 90's.
On to Hogan and Bischoff..guess I'll start with Eric on this one. Unless he can borrow another big idea from somewhere, I really don't know what he's going to accomplish in TNA other than making sure Hogan never has to carry his own luggage. He's not going to be able to spend tens of millions of dollars of someone else's money this time around, he wasn't a particularly effective manager in WCW. Basically I don't see much chance this can be good and many ways it can go bad.
Now for Hogan, I'll admit I still like to see Hogan on TV...for about 10 minutes once a year. I think back to the RAW 15th anniversary show. Hogan comes down to the ring, saves Hornswaggle from Khali, does a few poses and a little speech. That's about all I need to see from him anymore. Long term, I have no interest in seeing him on TV even 2 weeks in a row now. Hulk Hogan has always been in it for one reason...Hulk Hogan. What reason is there to think he's any different now than what he has been for the last 30 years? Actually, I'll tell you what the difference is. This time he's doing it for a smaller paycheck from a smaller company. If he could still command big dollars from WWE he would damn well be doing it. Hogan's ego has not gotten one bit smaller, but his drawing power has. There will be an increase in ratings, short term, Within a few weeks the novelty will have worn off and TNA will be right back where they started, probably by the beginning of 2010. Meh, probably not even back to where they started considering what they will have to pay Hogan...you know as well as I do Hogan doesn't do anything for 1 dollar less than all he can get. If he's coming back for 1 last non-title program (Sting, perhaps?) then I can see some short term success. Anything longer than a few weeks though...not a chance. If this was maybe 2006 or so, I'd think there was a better chance of this ending well but now, not so much. TNA is out in the water and sees Hogan as a lifeboat...problem is, there's only room for one in Hogan's lifeboat.
Quote: why yes, it is lonely being an island of wisdom in this sea of diarrhea
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pocket
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10/31/2009 4:37:00 PM
I've never had a blog aimed at me before, I feel honoured:)
Dude I labelled you the broken record because you do nothing but bash TNA, which is normally fine because I firmly agree with you that their on screen product is at times shocking. But with the aquisition of Hogan and Bischoff even the haters like yourself should be nothing but positive that they can turn the table... and like you said "compete".
As for your blog.... I've been waiting a long time to read some STFU.... thanks! I see what you are refering to with the examples you gave but there is a huge difference... these guys knew nothing about what they were getting themselves into which is why they failed. Hogan and Bischoff know what they are doing here... we don't .... that could be a talking point for the future?
I just wanna touch on Beckham, because I come from Manchester, and a United fan..... this kid had the world at his feet fell in love with being a mega star... and has been on a downward spiral ever since (wife included).... he only went to the US for the money.... he had no clue why he was there! idiot he is:)
Don't take stuff so personal dude, I'm a nice guy really!
Quote: Cool guys don't look at explosions!!!
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pocket
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10/31/2009 4:55:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Spartan
Now for Hogan, I'll admit I still like to see Hogan on TV...for about 10 minutes once a year. I think back to the RAW 15th anniversary show. Hogan comes down to the ring, saves Hornswaggle from Khali, does a few poses and a little speech. That's about all I need to see from him anymore. Long term, I have no interest in seeing him on TV even 2 weeks in a row now. Hulk Hogan has always been in it for one reason...Hulk Hogan. What reason is there to think he's any different now than what he has been for the last 30 years? Actually, I'll tell you what the difference is. This time he's doing it for a smaller paycheck from a smaller company. If he could still command big dollars from WWE he would damn well be doing it. Hogan's ego has not gotten one bit smaller, but his drawing power has. There will be an increase in ratings, short term, Within a few weeks the novelty will have worn off and TNA will be right back where they started, probably by the beginning of 2010. Meh, probably not even back to where they started considering what they will have to pay Hogan...you know as well as I do Hogan doesn't do anything for 1 dollar less than all he can get. If he's coming back for 1 last non-title program (Sting, perhaps?) then I can see some short term success. Anything longer than a few weeks though...not a chance. If this was maybe 2006 or so, I'd think there was a better chance of this ending well but now, not so much. TNA is out in the water and sees Hogan as a lifeboat...problem is, there's only room for one in Hogan's lifeboat.
Ouch! so.... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a fan?
I'm just gonna quote a very sensible mans words "nobody draws like Hogan... NOBODY" -Mysterio Monkie.
and for the record, Vince calls Bollea every single WrestleMania in hope of coaxing out Hulk Hogan for a quick buck! So yes he could and still will in the future get the big bucks with Vince's company!
Quote: Cool guys don't look at explosions!!!
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10/31/2009 6:15:00 PM
*finishes drinking hot chocolate and eating popcorn*
very nice blog STFU ur right on the money again.... and with minimal swear words too ;)
i to am not convinced as ive stated in the news posts... i think TNA will suffer in the long term...
after his devorce and losing half his stuff to his ex wife.... he needs or should i say he WANTS a long term money income.... a 1 off WWE payday wont do... he might b taking less money home at the start but over a year.... im sure its more than a Wrestlemania one off payday....
i think TNA will suffer in the long term cause they will b a bunch of yes men to him... and then one day they will ask him to do sumthing he doesnt want to do like lose clean to AJ or sumthing... and he will fall off his rocking chair and "hurt" himself so he cant do it or just go ballastic and take his ball and go home....
i cant wait to see a Jeff Jarret(if he ever returns from bonking Angles ex wife) v Hulk Hogan.. who will win that backstage power war?
Quote: Im a sarcastic perverted tourist robbing Australian convict
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10/31/2009 6:24:00 PM
It's a terrifying world when people start quoting me....
I've already said all I need to say about Hogan....he brings his own personal fan club, they don't even need to be wrestling fans. You only have to look at how much excitement there is on every wrestling site about his return......and not just wrestling sites. It won't be extra wrestling fans he draws, people just want to see the entrance, hear the promo and soak in the atmosphere......they don't care if he wrestles or not......I know I don't.
Signing Hogan is worth anything they are paying him, the guy is gold. There is so much you can do with someone like that, a real creative force who knows exactly what he's doing. People can whine all they like about him having had too much power, not putting people over, etc......the fact remains that the guy was right not to do so. He SHOULD have creative control, he's exactly the kind of guy that will do something good with that.
The industry might be stale, but things are about to liven up for a bit.
Jarrett/Hogan power struggle? Why would that happen? Jarrett is well known for being.....a decent bloke who most of his peers like. Don't see that happening as it goes completely against everything history tells us about the two.......and as for Hogan bleeding TNA dry......I seem to recall the guy being one of the only guys that came back and worked extra dates, on top of his contractual obligations, to try and save WCW. Most of the other wrestlers just refused and sat out their massive contracts. There are lots of nasty, unpleasent, money grabbing leeches in wrestling.....Hogan wrongly gets lumped in with them. The guy has always drawn more money than he made.....much more.
Quote: No one should die because they can't afford health care, no one should go broke if they get sick
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10/31/2009 7:36:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Spartan
Now for Hogan, I'll admit I still like to see Hogan on TV...for about 10 minutes once a year. I think back to the RAW 15th anniversary show. Hogan comes down to the ring, saves Hornswaggle from Khali, does a few poses and a little speech. That's about all I need to see from him anymore. Long term, I have no interest in seeing him on TV even 2 weeks in a row now. Hulk Hogan has always been in it for one reason...Hulk Hogan. What reason is there to think he's any different now than what he has been for the last 30 years? Actually, I'll tell you what the difference is. This time he's doing it for a smaller paycheck from a smaller company. If he could still command big dollars from WWE he would damn well be doing it. Hogan's ego has not gotten one bit smaller, but his drawing power has. There will be an increase in ratings, short term, Within a few weeks the novelty will have worn off and TNA will be right back where they started, probably by the beginning of 2010. Meh, probably not even back to where they started considering what they will have to pay Hogan...you know as well as I do Hogan doesn't do anything for 1 dollar less than all he can get. If he's coming back for 1 last non-title program (Sting, perhaps?) then I can see some short term success. Anything longer than a few weeks though...not a chance. If this was maybe 2006 or so, I'd think there was a better chance of this ending well but now, not so much. TNA is out in the water and sees Hogan as a lifeboat...problem is, there's only room for one in Hogan's lifeboat.
Ouch! so.... I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you're not a fan?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you didn't read the first sentence of the section you quoted. What part of I like seeing him on TV for the occasional appearance was too complicated for you? If I wasn't a fan I'd say something like I don't want to see him on TV ever again. Is that clearer?
I'm just gonna quote a very sensible mans words "nobody draws like Hogan... NOBODY" -Mysterio Monkie.
and for the record, Vince calls Bollea every single WrestleMania in hope of coaxing out Hulk Hogan for a quick buck! So yes he could and still will in the future get the big bucks with Vince's company!
For the record, when exactly was the last Wrestlemania Hogan wrestled on? Last time he closed he show? Again, let's stick to what has actually happened and not what could or might have been when discussing the past.
Quote: why yes, it is lonely being an island of wisdom in this sea of diarrhea
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10/31/2009 7:38:00 PM
Good stuff STFU. Bischoff can be overrated. After NWO, he couldn't come up with anything else. I can understand STFU's point of view and others who think it will work. But people seem to be trying to convince themselves it will work just cause it could help wrestling as a whole out. Being delusional won't make TNA a success and just because someone doesn't think it will work, doesn't mean they wouldn't want it to.
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10/31/2009 8:42:00 PM
Quote: Im a sarcastic perverted tourist robbing Australian convict
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__STFU__
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Cruiserweight
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10/31/2009 8:54:00 PM
pocket... for the record, i was not aiming the blog at you... i saw the opportunity to use the play on words to be the theme of my blog and took it... it was far more of a joke than an angry retort... and by the way... when beckham was first announced to come to america, he was anointed the savior of american soccer... i believe he clearly knew his expectations over here...
just to be clear, i do not have that much respect for bischoff... the man did well spending ted turners money and stealing ideas, but wcw was not put on the map because of eric bischoff... tna landing paul heyman would be a far bigger deal... i have tremendous respect for heyman who made a real stand against both WWE and wcw, and if it were not for poor business he would have done more... heyman has the creative mind to make a difference... and being a hater or not, hogan and bischoff just doesnt elicit a positive thought from me... i dont think they have the track record...
hogan going to tnaarp has too many variables right now... but the power struggle jokes do make me laugh... hogan will never be pinned clean... nash hates to be pinned... foley hates to be pinned... jarrett rarely loses... angle is the golden boy... it would be interesting to see these old farts with creative control have matches... ego and political stroke do not make good business bedfellows...
i give tna credit for having the balls to go out and make this deal... but i dont think they have thought this all the way through... hogan fighting in tna is pretty much like michael jordan competing against elementary school leagues... his losing just wont be believable... you guys think super-cena is annoying... hogan in tna has the same potential... lets not forget the fact that hogan is well into his 50's... there are many issues with this savior-like signing...
last but not least... hogan allegedly got a call to wrestle big show at wm23 in detroit... and austin this year in houston... why these failed to happen, i dont know, but talk was there... i think he is in tna to stick it to vince, plus, if by some miracle tna succeeds than he can take credit for it... hogan will always be hogan, whether he has earned that right or not...
Quote: how can anyone make an argument that tna isnt a complete failure... seriously... join us in reality
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10/31/2009 9:46:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by __STFU__
pocket... for the record, i was not aiming the blog at you... i saw the opportunity to use the play on words to be the theme of my blog and took it... it was far more of a joke than an angry retort... and by the way... when beckham was first announced to come to america, he was anointed the savior of american soccer... i believe he clearly knew his expectations over here...
just to be clear, i do not have that much respect for bischoff... the man did well spending ted turners money and stealing ideas, but wcw was not put on the map because of eric bischoff... tna landing paul heyman would be a far bigger deal... i have tremendous respect for heyman who made a real stand against both WWE and wcw, and if it were not for poor business he would have done more... heyman has the creative mind to make a difference... and being a hater or not, hogan and bischoff just doesnt elicit a positive thought from me... i dont think they have the track record...
hogan going to tnaarp has too many variables right now... but the power struggle jokes do make me laugh... hogan will never be pinned clean... nash hates to be pinned... foley hates to be pinned... jarrett rarely loses... angle is the golden boy... it would be interesting to see these old farts with creative control have matches... ego and political stroke do not make good business bedfellows...
i give tna credit for having the balls to go out and make this deal... but i dont think they have thought this all the way through... hogan fighting in tna is pretty much like michael jordan competing against elementary school leagues... his losing just wont be believable... you guys think super-cena is annoying... hogan in tna has the same potential... lets not forget the fact that hogan is well into his 50's... there are many issues with this savior-like signing...
last but not least... hogan allegedly got a call to wrestle big show at wm23 in detroit... and austin this year in houston... why these failed to happen, i dont know, but talk was there... i think he is in tna to stick it to vince, plus, if by some miracle tna succeeds than he can take credit for it... hogan will always be hogan, whether he has earned that right or not...
Wow. That was brilliant. You make a great point. It just won't look right seeing Hogan lose to those guys.
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pocket
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11/1/2009 12:41:00 AM
I really don't think Hogan will wrestle so much, I'd be very very suprised if he wrestled more than a handfull of matches per year.... Thats's not why he's there. In the press conference when asked about his first match/getting in the ring he said he "didn't yet know what was gonna happen as far as that goes" or something very similar....
Add that to what Bubba the Love Sponge said on his radio show "Hogan and Bischoff are gonna be booking TNA, I've seen it in his contract"
I just don't see him being an active wrestler if he doesn't need to be....more of a GM on screen or some sort of role where he can appear on tv but not having to cripple himself.
As for Beckham (again) I saw the guy play many a time and met him twice and he could've been one of the greatest players, now he's just become the most famous and is a complete shadow of his former self. When he went to the US, he thought it would be easy to make it work but failed and his standard of play slumped even more ( thats what I meant by saying he didn't know what he was getting into) dude they even started selling LA Galaxy jerseys in stores here and televising a few games, but nobody gave a fu##- nobody cared about second rate football when the best league in the world is played on our little tiny country. He ruined his legacy as a footballer the day he met his wife and won't be remebered as a great footballer because he only really was great for 3 or 4 years.....
sorry for the non wrestling comments.... slap my wrists:)
Quote: Cool guys don't look at explosions!!!
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11/1/2009 3:25:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocket
As for Beckham (again) I saw the guy play many a time and met him twice and he could've been one of the greatest players, now he's just become the most famous and is a complete shadow of his former self. When he went to the US, he thought it would be easy to make it work but failed and his standard of play slumped even more ( thats what I meant by saying he didn't know what he was getting into) dude they even started selling LA Galaxy jerseys in stores here and televising a few games, but nobody gave a fu##- nobody cared about second rate football when the best league in the world is played on our little tiny country. He ruined his legacy as a footballer the day he met his wife and won't be remebered as a great footballer because he only really was great for 3 or 4 years.....
sorry for the non wrestling comments.... slap my wrists:)
Bollocks
Beckham is one of the best players in the game today, even at 34. I hate Man Utd, like most english people, but suggesting Beckham won't be remembered as one of the best ever is rubbish.....he will.
MLS made more money in the last two years than ever before. The ratings have leveled off, but Beckham going there has raised the profile of the game in the states. The nancy boy version of rugby, I forget what its called, is the big game there. You could not sell that to the english (or the rest of the world) anymore than you can sell football to the Americans.....it's just as alien a concept to them as men, not women, playing netball/basketball/hockey is to us......a complete cultural difference
Quote: No one should die because they can't afford health care, no one should go broke if they get sick
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pocket
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11/1/2009 5:22:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteriomonkie.
Beckham is one of the best players in the game today, even at 34. I hate Man Utd, like most english people, but suggesting Beckham won't be remembered as one of the best ever is rubbish.....he will.
Monkie as a Man U fan (who's actually from Manchester.. a rare breed) I
should love Beckham, but he's the most overrated player of all time...
who only has 100+ caps because he was Svens bumboy. an amazing cross and freekick doesn't mean your a world class player.... His looks took
him a long way, but his talent should have taken him further... don't
forget his promise as a young kid was never fulfilled because of his
wife and asperations to become more than a footballer...
MLS made more money in the last two years than ever before. The ratings have leveled off, but Beckham going there has raised the profile of the game in the states. The nancy boy version of rugby, I forget what its called, is the big game there. You could not sell that to the english (or the rest of the world) anymore than you can sell football to the Americans.....it's just as alien a concept to them as men, not women, playing netball/basketball/hockey is to us......a complete cultural difference
couldn't agree more.... I've tried to watch NFL, NHL and even MLB but they all suck because its not something we Brits grow up with...
I bet this makes no sense to the rest of the guys on here:)
Quote: Cool guys don't look at explosions!!!
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11/1/2009 5:43:00 AM
I don't think he is remotely overrated personally. We don't have another guy in the team that can hold up the ball, pin point pas, shoot and tackle as well as Beckham......he's just a totally different class of player. Sven picked him as he's one of the top 10 midfielders in the world.....not sure he was suited to being captain though. Without that pressure he's been a revelation since his return.....and, as I say, I am not a Utd fan
Quote: No one should die because they can't afford health care, no one should go broke if they get sick
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pocket
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11/1/2009 9:57:00 AM
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree Evil-Monkie.... but Becks was a sh## captain I'll agree with that!
Just noticed you hit the glass ceiling champ:)
Quote: Cool guys don't look at explosions!!!
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11/1/2009 11:03:00 AM
as far as beck's is concerned... on a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the lease popular and 10 being the most popular, beckham raised the popularity level from a 1 to a 1.000000001
and i agree with stfu %100. the hogan signing is huge but it won't make a difference unless they improve the product. there are high expectations for Hogan and given his age and health, I don't think he'll be able to deliver.
Quote: and no thats not me... its just a hot chick
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11/1/2009 12:25:00 PM
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Originally Posted by _Injustice_
and i agree with stfu %100. the hogan signing is huge but it won't make a difference unless they improve the product. there are high expectations for Hogan and given his age and health, I don't think he'll be able to deliver.
I think we all agree with that. Signing Hogan is basically boosting the rating without doing the work. The ONLY reason i'll be watching it with more interest is Hogan......TNA have not improved there product, but at least there will be scope to improve it......some real talent joining TNA might help them structure their shows better.
.....Ah, Heavyweight Champ must be 600 posts......
Quote: No one should die because they can't afford health care, no one should go broke if they get sick
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pocket
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11/1/2009 1:26:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteriomonkie.
.....Ah, Heavyweight Champ must be 600 posts......
Its all becoming clear now:) I released my 45th blog and jumped to Icon! I feel like Sting woooooo
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rkan05x
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United States
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11/1/2009 3:14:00 PM
I dunno if its 600 posts because I have 606.
Quote: I am a sycophantic tapeworm.
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11/1/2009 4:29:00 PM
I am the first to reach Icon status out of the bunch, not that the ratings system means a damn thing.
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